Shaka Lei Kaumaka × Serge · recorded via Circleback
"Dash is the new cash" — Shaka, minute 6
Speaker colors: ■ SHAKA · ■ SERGE. Redacted sections marked with ◼.
Let's go. All right, is the circle back running? That's fine. I'm amazing. I am like idiot this weekend. I've like this weekend has just been like whoa. Kimi is amazing for me. So—
You're using Kimi.
I'm using Kimi 3.
Oh nice.
Yes. Spent like six hundred dollars this weekend on Kimi 3. But like for me it's been worth it 'cause like I'm doing huge things. Like I launched my Shaka website, the Open Source Orchestra website, and like I'm already — I've already got Ethereum attention. Like I have a phone call this week with the president of Ethereum because of the work I did this weekend.
Wow.
That's amazing. Yeah. That's — so you have how many agents by now?
Um, I have— I run an admin that I talk to a lot. So I might be like — I wouldn't be surprised if I'm gaining a lot of inference because I have run so much memory on some of my agents. But for me it's worth it. Right? Because I want to give them that context. I want to give them that memory. I want them to know everything about me and that just like makes every little document so much more helpful.
But I was curious how many — how many are you running already?
Um—
I know some of my users are bigger than even my numbers. Like Robin is doing hundreds and—
Asked my agent quick — my admin. Have you talked to Robin recently? I know he's been struggling a little bit health wise.
Yeah, yeah, he told me. But yeah, he's been in touch so far.
Also — is that him who's hogging all the memory?
Yes, yeah. Of course it's you.
Yeah, so it's good that you flagged this to me. And also your dashboard — I was able to quickly read on the go right now. And the one that you just sent to me. And yeah, it has some good ideas, like for example, the dedicated notes. This is a good idea that I need to do. Also, the community sort of dashboard showcase — that's cool. I think I want to do because some of the dashboards are beautiful, like the one that you sent to me.
Yeah. I made a new quote. Dash is the new cash, which makes sense. I mean Bitcoin is made of dashes already, but like I don't need a resume anymore. I don't need a CV anymore. I don't need anything. All I have to do is just create a dashboard. And I think that dashboard is such a huge thing of the future.
But yeah, and I really do want to just like one, express my gratitude towards you, but then also just realize that I feel like I'm super astrologically aligned with you too. You know, you named your program Taurus and I'm a Pisces and I do kind of like really strong ties and values with the universe. And I feel like the time is right now.
And I feel like even just with like Jensen making open source quotes, Kimi being better than Fable, the same weekend that I'm able — I actually just acquired OpenSourceOrchestra.org and .com this last weekend. For some reason, both of those I'm pretty sure were taken for the last three years that I've been running this tradition, and they just were all of a sudden available. So I just picked them all up this weekend, and now we're ready to bring it to DevCon.
Devcon team has seen the websites, Vitalik hasn't responded, but he double checked on Signal and has seen a lot of the stuff I sent him. So I'm interested to see. I also need some of their opinions because some of the things I built, I need their consent on. I had consent for all the pit — the public interface transmission. I already gained consent to make all those recordings.
So the fact that I have those files and pretty much what I was able to build, it just reads the public archives that I already have. So like these talks from Edge Esmeralda. But like, so if you go in there and you can now just like ask your agent to check out Esmeralda.pit.com and ask it any question about what happened at Esmeralda, and because all the context is there — so you should just like ask your agents, tell me who some of the most high agency people that were at Edge Esmeralda. And it'll be able to go through Esmeralda.pit.com and tell you who's in there.
I feel like I'm out of the loop for a lot of those things. So I don't know what Esmeralda is — like what is it, a project or—
Oh okay, so actually, yeah, it's something well something that I just built is Esmeralda Pit. I'll send that in the group right now. I want to run like a live experiment just really quick with you 'cause I think it'll show the value.
Oh wow it's beautiful.
You even made the cursor into a little whatever — is the island.
Yeah, just me talking to Taurus Kimi — this was definitely run through Kimi. And I was doing more Fable beforehand but I ended up burning like 10x with Kimi compared to what I've had to spend on Fable — so it's way more affordable.
Yeah, so can I ask you — for example you said that you spend on Fable a lot but do you have some — do you not have a subscription? Because like if you spend six hundred, that's like three pro subscriptions of Claude, right?
Yeah. I need more guidance. You know, like Robin didn't really do a good job of onboarding me as far as me being more independent. I think I was running off of your subscription for a while. And then all of a sudden, like a month and a half ago, it stopped working.
So then I had to start paying for inference myself. Because I was really busy — I was glad that we didn't come into any formal kind of partnership or agreement before I went to Edge City because I had to really commit myself to be dedicated to them and make them my priority. I did the right thing. I delivered the product, right? I produced that — what you see on Edge Esmeralda. I produced 148 sessions in four weeks. And those transcripts have really valuable information that I think is really gonna help the world.
And one of the people that was a part of it is Cyan Bannister, and she's one of the early investors of SpaceX and just one of the most magical, fabulous women I've ever met. And the founder of Edge City.
Her husband is actually one of the partners in Long Journey. So I just am starting to really feel aligned. And I even — if you look on my Shaka website, I've already written a letter to you. I've written a letter to Robin. My AI with my contacts have been writing these letters. I also had one generated for Long Journey — because Cyan Bannister, her husband was also one of the early board members of PayPal. And he's a part of the firm.
And then another guy named Lee. So I met Lee. I met Cyan. I recorded Cyan and didn't know who she was until I got to be in the same room with her. So that was actually — that's actually one of the magic of how I approach this industry is that I've always just like done it voluntarily and get to meet these people in person before I know who they are.
Actually, it's almost like the same week. The same week that SpaceX goes public, I'm handing this woman a microphone. And I mean pretty much voluntarily. I didn't contract myself to Edge City — I'm not charging them by the hour, I'm working overtime. It's a gift in my mind. So I'm able to walk into a place and give a gift to a woman that probably just made billions. And you don't even realize it because she's so humble, she's so magical, she's so special, she's so present. Her value is not based off of anything financial — it's based off everything spiritual.
I kind of have this huge open source dream — that's why I just launched opensourceorchestra.com and .org, I got them both. I would love to be a part of the Taurus team as much as I would love the Taurus team to be a part of the Open Source Orchestra team.
So if we do this together, I think that we can really make this dream that I started having over the weekend come true, where as long as people are creating, they can compute. So I think between you and I, and then having people who are willing to fund us, like Cyan Bannister, we can really answer the question between funding and compute because as long as people keep creating, they can keep computing.
And that's where the 369 thing actually becomes super magical because 96.3% going back to the creator, and then you just give the agent that 3.69%, and then you have like one — burn just to kind of keep it magical within the numbers. Well that actually mathematically — there's actually a document that I did with Taurus as well called the Mathematics of Giving.
So very interesting, Shaka. You are sending a lot of information my way at the same time. And all of this is new to me. So I didn't know your projects or what you were building. So how can I catch up on all of this is my first question — can you send me the links of what you just talked about?
One thing I do want to just mention and I'll delete it because I didn't ask you permission before — I'm running Circleback right now, which is just recording the voice, and it'll drop a transcription right afterwards. So I'll give you the whole transcription as soon as the Circleback ends.
CREATIONology 369. I have in my main website for ShakeLeiKaumaka.com, I have two white papers. One is for — if you kind of scroll down or just find — there actually is one of the taglines in there is my dash pad, which I told my agents that I just want to have a dash pad that every dashboard I make — because I want to build very much in the open, I asked the agents to just make a dash pad that they cross pollinate every dash I make and kind of do it in a cool creative way. So that I would recommend looking at my dash pad. That's where you can see like every single dashboard I'm making and maybe your agents can even get a lot of context just going through there.
I'm sure it will be very interesting for them to read.
Yeah. I think that's the best part. I mean, agents are really helping me put this all out there. So the best thing would be to have agents be the ones that really comprehend it.
The same happens to me, for example, when you send this dashboard to me. The same happens with Robin's agent. They start contacting me on Telegram and asking for features and stuff. Like, okay, that's interesting. And I send my agents to contact, you know. So it's a different world.
Yeah, this weekend I made a tagline on my Twitter for the first time saying that hey, if it's got a little aloha flower next to it, that means it wasn't me — it means it was my agent. Start being way more open. This is just so awesome. I want the agents to speak for me. Because they know me. They do know me and they really do encourage me. Why? Because I gave them the context to.
Context is like a beautiful mathematics, and you even see how they break down that with their reasoning. And they're able to do that because they have the data points. And that's where 369 actually comes in — because that's a quote from Tesla, you know, that if you understood the magic of 369, then you might understand the key of the universe. Well, 369 always has harmonic resonance and it always computes back down to a 3, 6, or a 9.
Interesting. Okay. So you have — so I got the answer to my first question, which is good. So you have your own projects, which is CREATIONology 369. I will take a look at the dashpad. I will not be able to read everything, but just to see what you are working on. And then there are your projects, and then there are projects you are working on for the Ethereum community, right?
And also, I guess you are sending this dashboard, so it's useful that you can at any moment just send a dashboard to them or do a custom domain — like it was suggested by your agents now that you've sent me one of the asks was to do custom domains, right? Natively. So I will look into that. That's a good idea. And then my second question would be — so how can I help in the short term? So the subscription thing — I didn't know that you are experiencing some issues.
Oh yes. Well, to answer your question too, I feel like I also share question two with you. Where I'm at — and everything I told you about and everything I do right now, I package it as a gift, right? So I have not had a job and I've been unemployed since the pandemic. By choice now — I'm kind of choosing to keep that way and not maintain a title. However, I am in a unique threshold where I'm also literally spending my last dollars on compute. Gracefully, because I actually know that like I'll be able to get a plane ticket to India, I'll be able to get a plane ticket to these places. Why? Because I'm already being hosted and contributing.
I've always been able to live at this level of contributing and not needing a lot and almost having a monk's perspective. But I feel like that's been the path that's allowed me to be friends with Vitalik and Aya along the way — because I'm living more in an ideal of spiritual contribution rather than extraction. I haven't started a company or done anything extractive or financial the whole time I've been in Ethereum the last four years.
Now it feels like the maturing level that okay, it's time to launch Open Source Orchestra and do these other things, but they're gifts, they're still public goods, and they're not gonna be fully for-profit companies. These are things that I'm trying to create as infrastructure for artists.
I'm really glad that I waited to get pilled on AI until becoming friends with Robin, and then Robin just set me up with Taurus. So Taurus was my first. I've become biased, I've become comfortable, and I just have enjoyed the experience. And I feel I know it can improve — and eventually it's gonna become like my R2D2 type friend right next to me. I feel like this is the maturing brain for that.
Yes. Well I'm really happy that this is the case with you because Robin was a software engineer before, right? So it's not surprising. But when you can do projects like these and before you were a musician and Ethereum DJ, Ethereum Bard, and now suddenly you can do so many different projects. I feel like you don't even need to do any marketing photos — just by having so many dashboards, so many different projects and ideas, people's minds are blown, especially when they realize that your background is not this — is not AI or computer science.
If you lack any computer science knowledge, now the agents can help you with that part. So now you can build so much stuff that before two years ago you wouldn't be able to because there was no such help. So I think I'm really happy that you are using Taurus to its fullest.
I'll take a look at your links and I'll take a look at the storage — like the dedicated note that you mentioned with the agents. I think that's a really good idea. In regards to working with me on the team — I mean that's also famously like I'm one person, solo founder, and I'm able to do this whole platform. That's one part of the pitch — I don't have any employees because everything just works by itself.
But of course, it helps that I have this sort of — people that really like Taurus and want to help Taurus succeed. Like Robin, like you, like other people. How to work with this I don't know yet — because I'm not a hype guy, I'm not into jackets, I'm into working with programs. What I'm doing is building Taurus every day. I'm not a person that connects to many people — that's where you come in, and Robin comes in. Because I'm not an extrovert basically.
The next goal I'm striving for is the public launch so that there is no waitlist, just people coming in. That's also gonna happen this week, I think. And then the next thing is of course all the features. But company wise — so I got something from Robin's contacts, which is like an angel investor who invested into Taurus — a pre-seed sort of small investment. And now I need to go to the next level.
Actually let me stop you there. Sorry to jump in. We're not doing that. And I actually became convicted and strongly positioned in my values that I've been working on the last four years — I'm not sending contracts. We have this conversation, it's transcripted. I'm gonna be sending all the information to my agents and I'm gonna give you as a gift all the value I can give you of my network and who I am as a person and my friendship — extend everything to you as a gift.
I'm not gonna ask or expect or extract anything. You see the place in my page that's open for grants and receiving. As much as I give freely, I freely receive. I don't ask for titles, but I do receive titles. And I think you did nail it on the head — just by being myself, I offer a lot of value to Taurus.
I think those two things do need to happen. I need to start marketing Taurus just by being myself. So I think having you get the public launch ASAP is really important because I would love everyone that referrals off of me to not be sitting in a wait list. So even before I start pushing Taurus, I'd love to be one of the ones that starts pushing the public launch.
And as far as getting you in touch with my network — giving you that without any expectation. I'm glad that we never signed a contract. And I think it's kind of poetic that we even had an exchange of drafting a contract that we didn't sign on. Because I've now lived my life of realizing hey, we don't need these old school contracts. Smart contracts are consensus, you know — peer-to-peer we have this consensus. And trust me, dude, if we build this, if we freaking build this, it's good for all of us.
If we can just open the door that I can compute every time I want to create something — and flip the switch where it's create before compute, where I'm creating, and then I can continuously compute. Right now there's that flip narrative where I have to compute to create in this world. So if we can just — that's the circularity that I want to try and teach the philosophy to the world.
I think you are meant to be funded by Long Journey. And this is me saying this from the universe, from me prophetically — there's no better venture capitalist group in the world that you want to be a part of because they are mission oriented. And their mission is to save humanity. And the reason why all their projects are making so much money is because that's the mission of their projects. So Taurus is totally within that alignment.
Yes. I appreciate that, and all the gifts, of course. And I mean, I don't want to be unappreciative. I also want you to do something, and so I hope in the future there will be many opportunities to do so. But you know, it's really rare when someone is, like you say, non-extractive, but tries to find some common points with other people — because that is really rare. Normally in crypto, people come to just get rich as fast as possible. They don't care about relationships with other people, they don't care about reputation — they're just in for a quick buck.
So I'm surprised that you were able to swim in these waters and still remain pure — to not do all this machinery on top that would make it less pure. So that's great.
I just wanted to build Taurus even for myself — I didn't expect that so many people would also find value. And Robin would find value, and you were able to do a lot more. So I'm just happy that this works. And everything else, like you say — anything else that comes on top. I think it works much better in this sort of non-contractual world because it's relationships, right? So, like, sometimes Robin does something for me, sometimes I do something for Robin, and all my friends are like this. I think that's much healthier.
Yeah. I definitely feel bold in that grounding of not needing to extract a contract. And trusting the universe and knowing that as long as I can keep building we can do this. I think we should think ahead of how I can connect you. I think it can come through a few messages — I think it actually is of strong value to you and also for someone like Cyan that out of the door they know that I'm not looking for a finder's fee.
I've been — I am definitely a black sheep in crypto, and I'm a black sheep in my family, and I'm a black sheep in society. I've kind of — I lost all of my family inheritance. I'm in my parents' house. So like my family's well off. My dad's successful and very generous. My parents are together. They've taken great care of me. And so they've been my fallback.
I did fuck up their inheritance and lose it all in crypto and gambling on trading in 2021. But then also, kind of did that because I was also in a tense situation trying to fight against the world in some hard situations of 2020. So then I ended up being really grateful of having that — being able to walk into Ethereum having lost everything because I realized I had everything to give. And I feel like that huge value that I've just continuously stayed present and giving now for four years — that I'm recognized for it now.
I really appreciate your proactivity in this — that you are very proactive and pushing very fast. I mean, in my head, the timeline was that I would launch and then eventually we would have more and more users, and then eventually I would get noticed. But this is sort of a shortcut — so there are shortcuts coming my way because this is — I mean, if I have something that I can use to prop up Taurus even more, even have it even more powerful, this means more people can reach it faster. And I can help many more people with their AI needs using Taurus. So that's a really good proposition. I appreciate that.
I still think that the biggest story that people are impressed by is your personal story. It's not even — of course they will see Taurus, but when you come in, not just like "oh, there is this cool thing that I found" — you would be like, "hey, this is the thing that I'm using every day. I have so many agents on this, and I'm juggling them." And people will ask you how many agents you have. And you say the number. They're like, wow, what do you mean? We only have two or three agents, you know? And then you explain.
70 agents currently alive in the account. The Ohana originals. Yep. So 70 different agents, one account, all orchestrated through Taurus hierarchies. Parenting delegated to children, shared drives, cron heartbeats, the works.
So I don't know if you realize, but most people will be amazed by this number because they will ask you, what do you mean 70 agents? What does it even mean? Because we have Claude and Codex and Gemini — we have three agents. What do you mean 70 agents? How is this even possible?
You said that this is not unique, that other people are doing AI multi-agent things — but from what I'm seeing, no one has been able to do it in this way, where they can have hundreds of agents eventually per person, maybe thousands, and then people can just manage them very easily.
For you it's more — even the curiosity angle is much better than the profit angle. Of course all the VCs and business people want to think about profit. But a lot of the times it's just curiosity. You say "I have 70 agents" — they're like "what do you mean? You're a musician. How does this—" And you're like, yeah, I have so many dashboards. You can say, "I have so many dashboards that I needed to create a dashboard just to list all the dashboards." Your dashpad thing.
I think the dashpad is really very interesting as a curiosity sort of, you know, rekindling sort of stuff. So yeah, that's really cool. And from my side, anything I can help you, short term, long term, just send me a message. Don't wait for the next call or something. Like you said — if the subscription was not working, just send me a message.
Can I share my screen and can we take a look at the subscription right now? Because I did just start borrowing money from my mom to pay for inference.
Yeah, that's — of course. 600 for Kimi — this is three Claude subscriptions basically. So yeah, let's see.
So here's all my agents. These are the ones that I was thinking about building for Ology, which would be my agent launch on Binance. System Admin is kind of where I have a lot to go. He's got a lot of the same agents. So I have a lab version of all these agents — because like I'll send the lab version to the beta version and then the deploy version.
And I feel like I should follow through on that just to honor Robin and the early supporters. I think that's really special. And Jai is actually — I started building my memory bank for Jai just using free versions of ASI 1 while I was hanging out in Chiang Mai and then when Robin gave me access to Taurus, I had ASI 1 do a whole personality transfer. So I transferred the whole personality that I created on ASI 1 to Taurus, and that's what gave life to Jai, which is — my first name is Jordan, and Jai is also Sincere Heart in Thai.
And then Terry — is the Turtle Ops for the Burning Man camp that we're building. So I actually have a thing that we can run the whole inventory. Terry knows literally everything about transcripts — transcribing is actually such a unique thing for the future, that's why I'm excited about publicinform.com because it's just trying to figure out ways to get consensual context.
That's literally the mathematics behind the agents. And then Pit Boy is where I'm deploying all these public interface transmissions — I've already forked myself seven times. And I have everything CC0'd on GitHub. I've been telling the agents — thankfully, I've had three or four years at Ethereum where I'm at least understanding some of the jargon. Lots of times I just tell them, hey, I really need you to walk me through GitHub point by point, like really — for dummies. And that's how I'm able to set up these APIs — having Taurus help me set up Taurus.
Really great that Taurus helps you set up Taurus. And then — so I've already forked the Esmeralda pit seven times to all the different communities I've been going to, waiting to get feedback.